Ask S&V

Motion Blur, Onkyo Results, Top LED-LCDs

Scott Wilkinson  |  Mar 31, 2010

Blurred Vision
Do you think motion blur on LCD TVs is still a big issue? I just watched Star Trek last night on my new LG 55LH40 and didn't notice any type of blur.

Ashley Hill

Motion blur can still be an issue, but manufacturers have gone to great lengths to reduce the problem. In particular, they have developed a technique called frame interpolation that creates new frames between the actual frames in the signal. The TV calculates where moving objects should be in the new frames, so they look sharper. Many sets double the displayed frame rate from 60Hz to 120Hz, while some quadruple the rate to 240Hz, inserting interpolated frames between the frames in the signal.

However, this process also tends to impart a "video" look to the image, which some people object to more than motion blur. I'm not one of them—I prefer less motion blur and don't mind the "video" look.

The 55LH40 is a 120Hz set, so it offers frame interpolation to reduce motion blur. If you haven't adjusted this control, I think it defaults to "on," in which case, motion blur will be reduced.

If you haven't already done so, I suggest that you watch something with fast motion while turning the set's TruMotion control (which controls frame interpolation) on and off. Can you see a difference in sharpness and detail of moving objects between the two settings? Can you see how the image has a "video" look when it's on? Which do you prefer, sharper motion detail or less of a "video" look?

Incredulous
In your review of the Onkyo TX-NR807 AV receiver, which was very positive, you list the following findings:

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 105.5 watts
1% distortion at 122.0 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 29.9 watts
1% distortion at 33.0 watts

No one on the various forums is questioning the results of the 5-channel test, but the wattage rating for the 7-channel test is so incredible that many are positive it's a misprint. I've been an Onkyo fan for many years and have never seen specs this abysmal for any of its receivers or amps.

Doug Hess

According to Mark Peterson, HT's audio-test engineer, these numbers are correct. He measured the TX-NR807 in exactly the same manner as he does all other AVRs, and these were his results. Odd, I know, but it is not a misprint. Apparently, he and HT editor Shane Buettner are talking with Onkyo about it, but I haven't heard any resolution of the matter. Meanwhile, if you want to know why this particular AVR measured in this way, you'll have to ask Onkyo.

Best LED-LCDs
I am looking for a 46- or 47-inch LCD TV with LED illumination and a matte screen if possible. What are your top two or three recommendations? You reviewed the 55-inch Samsung LCD and liked it a lot, although I am little concerned about off-axis viewing problems.

David Henry

My two top recommendations for you are the Samsung UN46B8500 (older, may be discontinued but still available from some outlets) and the LG 47LE8500 (brand new, review forthcoming). The Samsung is way more expensive than the LG—$3600 versus $2800 list, though I suppose you might be able to find the Samsung for less now that it's near the end of its retail cycle. Also, the LG has the most impressive off-axis performance I've ever seen in an LCD TV, and it's screen is more matte than the Samsung's.

Interesting that they both have 8500 in their model number; I have no idea why that might be. Both are great, so you can't go wrong either way.

If you have a home-theater question, please send it to scott.wilkinson@sorc.com.

COMMENTS
Douglas Fitzpatrick's picture
Submitted by Douglas Fitzpatrick (not verified) on April 1, 2010 - 1:28am

The motion blurr is still there but is well hidden by frame interpolation, owning a Samsung LN52B750 series LCD TV I have seen frame interpolation in action and it's atrocious looking, I call it the "Soap Opera Effect". It looks very unnatural, believe me when you first see it you'll know it! I have found a balance with Judder Reduction at 2-3 and Blurr Reduction at 10 and things don't look unnatural to me. Regards,Douglas.

the-green-fedora's picture
Submitted by the-green-fedora (not verified) on April 1, 2010 - 7:27am

I am sensitive to motion blur, even on some 120Hz sets--it makes my eyes feel strained and stomach almost nauseous. Plasma sets of same size do not cause this feeling (but they use too much power in my opinion). Other than pumping up the Hz to 240 and beyond, can't LCD makers find another way to combat motion blur that is as effective as plasma? Why can't LCD makers have responsive pixels and also scan the backlight at 60Hz to create the on-off flashing similar to plasma that makes plasma so good at handling motion resolution? That would obviate the need for fancy interpolation algorithms and allow me to watch hockey without hurling. ;)

Steve in Manitoba's picture
Submitted by Steve in Manitoba (not verified) on April 2, 2010 - 6:24am

Hey Doug, check out the review of the Denon AVR-4810CI on this site. It lists the power going from 123.5 down to 30.9 when going from 5 channels to 7. I think the reviews here are sound and the numbers correct and I'm glad they are being published here. As one who is looking to outfit his under construction 7.1 theater I have found these reviews help me to steer clear of products that may have power supplies that are up to the 5 channel task, are seriously overtaxed when 2 more channels are added. Case in point, the Pioneer SC-27. With 5 channels, 111.3, add 2 more and it only drops 3.9 to 107.4. So thanks for pointing out another product for me to avoid.

Peter Headland's picture
Submitted by Peter Headland (not verified) on April 2, 2010 - 3:22pm

> you might be able to find the Samsung for less nowThat's an understatement! I just picked the Samsung up from Amazon for $2049, which is a lot less than the current street price of the LG. The Sammy is a nice TV, but the reflective screen is a Bad Thing in rooms where you can't control light sources - the LG's matte screen would be a better pick in such situations. On the other hand, the Samsung's screen uniformity is truly excellent, and CNET's review of the LG says it has issues in that area.

james's picture
Submitted by james (not verified) on April 6, 2010 - 6:00am

The notion that motion handling is no longer an issue with LCD televisions is absurd in my opinion. And while I realize that's not exactly what's being contended here, the proposed "solutions" or "near-fixes" are dreadful, including interpolation which makes the sources look NOTHING like the producer/director intended.Until a new tech is developed that can assist LCD to even near PDP's level of motion-resolution WITHOUT such goofy rendering, critical folks will still look to plasma for it...and ditto for solid off-axis viewing and deep black levels with no blooming or blatant auto-dimming.I own LCDs and PDP'd BTW.

the-green-fedora's picture
Submitted by the-green-fedora (not verified) on April 6, 2010 - 10:10am

I agree with James. There must be a better way than to keep making LCDs more and more complex while not really resolving the issue. Has anyone seen the laser phosphor technology by Prysm? It is a type of SED tech. Are there any downsides to it? It seems to have all the performance of PDP at a fraction of the electrical usage of LCD. If someone could bring that out to market to challenge LCD and PDP, that would be great! Unfortunately, the big players in the LCD market would probably squash it just like they did with SED a couple years back.

the-green-fedora's picture
Submitted by the-green-fedora (not verified) on April 6, 2010 - 10:29am

I just read Thomas Norton's preview of the Samsung UNC468000, and he mentions something that relates to my post from 4/1. Thomas says for 3d, the 240 Hz refresh rate inserts black frames in between the left and right eye images to limit ghosting. It seems to me this same technique should be used for 2D material also. Have the pixels refreshing at 240 Hz, but rather than interpolating frames with an algorythm, just insert a black frame to mimic the flicker of plasma and eliminate motion blur. It's probably not as easy as I make it sound, but it sure makes sense to me.

Douglas Fitzpatrick's picture
Submitted by Douglas Fitzpatrick (not verified) on April 12, 2010 - 2:38am

One thing that isn't seen in the showrooms are how the viewing angles and black levels are once you bring the set home and dim things down quite a bit, in the Best Buy showrooms LCDs look there best and plasmas look dim in comparison! Bring them both home into a dimmly lit room and plasmas start to shine while the LCDs start to show its true weaknesses! I have prepared a YouTube video that speaks for its self, note my viewing angles aren't as noticeable when in factory torch mode aka Vivid mode. Doug. :)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYnAmDLXbY

Scott Wilkinson's picture
Submitted by Scott Wilkinson (not verified) on April 12, 2010 - 12:08pm

Fedora, earlier Samsung LCDs had something akin to black-frame insertion (BFI) in which the backlight was turned off in sequential horizontal bands from top to bottom. According to Samsung, this actually works better than full BFI. The C8000 uses full BFI because it's LED edge lit, and the LEDs are located at the top and bottom of the screen, so it can't turn the backlight off and on in sequential horizontal bands.Doug, excellent point, and one that I make every time I talk about LCD vs plasma. Nice YouTube demo of off-axis degradation!

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